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	<title>Comments on: Is fortunetelling a matter of the First Amendment?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637</link>
	<description>Humanist Perspectives on Breaking News and Political Activities</description>
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		<title>By: Jizin</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5536</link>
		<dc:creator>Jizin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5536</guid>
		<description>The same disclaimer should be printed on any church publication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The same disclaimer should be printed on any church publication.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5196</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5196</guid>
		<description>I think this law should definitely be overturned.  Churches are a for-profit business, even though they claim non-profit &amp; tax-exempt status.  This is clearly a case of Christians oppressing those who do not accept their beliefs &amp; trying to legislate their biblical laws.  
He could accept recommended donations (or maybe he could still charge a fee, not sure about the tax laws regarding this) &amp; apply for church status &amp; avoid paying taxes.  Other religious beliefs are protected.  ...and christians are forever predicting the future (jesus is coming soon, blah blah blah).
Besides, I want Christian churches (all religious institutions) to attempt to PROVE that they are not committing fraud &amp; robbing hundreds of millions of people a year as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this law should definitely be overturned.  Churches are a for-profit business, even though they claim non-profit &amp; tax-exempt status.  This is clearly a case of Christians oppressing those who do not accept their beliefs &amp; trying to legislate their biblical laws.<br />
He could accept recommended donations (or maybe he could still charge a fee, not sure about the tax laws regarding this) &amp; apply for church status &amp; avoid paying taxes.  Other religious beliefs are protected.  &#8230;and christians are forever predicting the future (jesus is coming soon, blah blah blah).<br />
Besides, I want Christian churches (all religious institutions) to attempt to PROVE that they are not committing fraud &amp; robbing hundreds of millions of people a year as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5195</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5195</guid>
		<description>I think this law should definitely be overturned.  Churches are a for-profit business, even though they claim non-profit &amp; tax-exempt status.  This is clearly a case of Christians oppressing those who do not accept their beliefs &amp; trying to legislate their biblical laws.  
He could accept recommended donations (or maybe he could still charge a fee, not sure about the tax laws regarding this) &amp; apply for church status &amp; avoid paying taxes.  Other religious beliefs are protected.  ...and christians are forever predicting the future (jesus is coming soon, blah blah blah).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this law should definitely be overturned.  Churches are a for-profit business, even though they claim non-profit &amp; tax-exempt status.  This is clearly a case of Christians oppressing those who do not accept their beliefs &amp; trying to legislate their biblical laws.<br />
He could accept recommended donations (or maybe he could still charge a fee, not sure about the tax laws regarding this) &amp; apply for church status &amp; avoid paying taxes.  Other religious beliefs are protected.  &#8230;and christians are forever predicting the future (jesus is coming soon, blah blah blah).</p>
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		<title>By: Nietzsche</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5191</link>
		<dc:creator>Nietzsche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5191</guid>
		<description>As long as we&#039;re banning fraudulant practices........ shouldn&#039;t all forms of religion be banned????????????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as we&#8217;re banning fraudulant practices&#8230;&#8230;.. shouldn&#8217;t all forms of religion be banned????????????</p>
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		<title>By: Abruzzo</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5189</link>
		<dc:creator>Abruzzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5189</guid>
		<description>&quot;Too bad they can</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Too bad they can</p>
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		<title>By: Abruzzo</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5188</link>
		<dc:creator>Abruzzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5188</guid>
		<description>&quot;Besides, if the fortunteller</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Besides, if the fortunteller</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Johnson</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5186</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5186</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see a whole lot of difference between this (fortunetelling) and legalized, regulated gambling.  Every lottery ticket sold, in Oregon anyway, has a disclaimer: &quot;... for entertainment only... should not be played for investment purposes.&quot;

Soothsayers, fortunetellers, etc. should possibly be required to have such a sign prominently displayed announcing that the activity is solely for enternainment and should not be considered sound advice for future conduct.

Besides, if the fortunteller&#039;s advice is so vague as to be exempt from fraud laws it should also be too vague for his clients to determine a course of action from it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see a whole lot of difference between this (fortunetelling) and legalized, regulated gambling.  Every lottery ticket sold, in Oregon anyway, has a disclaimer: &#8220;&#8230; for entertainment only&#8230; should not be played for investment purposes.&#8221;</p>
<p>Soothsayers, fortunetellers, etc. should possibly be required to have such a sign prominently displayed announcing that the activity is solely for enternainment and should not be considered sound advice for future conduct.</p>
<p>Besides, if the fortunteller&#8217;s advice is so vague as to be exempt from fraud laws it should also be too vague for his clients to determine a course of action from it.</p>
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		<title>By: GreyTheory</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5183</link>
		<dc:creator>GreyTheory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5183</guid>
		<description>Freedom of Speech is too valuable to chip away bits, even if the intent is good. Too bad they can&#039;t create some type of James Randi law (a &quot;Prove It&quot; legislation). Maybe force them to hang a large &quot;For Entertainment Purposes Only&quot; sign at their entrances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freedom of Speech is too valuable to chip away bits, even if the intent is good. Too bad they can&#8217;t create some type of James Randi law (a &#8220;Prove It&#8221; legislation). Maybe force them to hang a large &#8220;For Entertainment Purposes Only&#8221; sign at their entrances.</p>
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		<title>By: Francis</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5169</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 01:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5169</guid>
		<description>Victoria&#039;s post misses the point. We all know that fortunetelling is a scam. But nobody holds a loaded gun to their backs to force reluctant customers to walk in the door with money in hand.

Face the reality: the ban on fortunetelling is a racist measure targeted at a powerless minority, the Romani. 

If the Jews and Muslims of Montgomery County slash healthy tissue from the sensitive genitals of baby boys without their consent, oh THAT is just their religious freedom, covenant with G-d, FAITH is so WONDERFUL, they HONOR GOD&#039;S HAWLY WEHRD, ain&#039;t it BEAUTIFUL, blah blah, you mustn&#039;t criticize FAITH, it would be antiSemitic and RACIST, blah, blah blah.

The Romani and THEIR superstitions are singled out for attack because they are a miniscule and relatively defenseless group. 

Roman Catholics can teach that the consecrated bread really, really became the Body of Christ and the wine became his blood - oh wow what a MIRACLE - and oh no, we must not interfere in THAT scam. But let the Romani of Montgomery County claim supernatural insights and it&#039;s CRUCIFY THEM, CRUCIFY THEM, they are sinners, heretics, criminals. 

Then L. Ron Hubbard can take all your money in return for convincing you that the evil XEMU created Earth ninety million years ago - and get away with it. Scientology takes your twenty thousand dollars, the fortune teller takes one hundred dollars - so let&#039;s go after the Romani!?!? How much sense does that make?

The Holocaust was a dreadful historical event - yet mnay Jews survived. How may Romani walked out of Auschwitz alive? Lay off them. Go after the scammers whose superstitions actually damage people&#039;s lives without their consent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Victoria&#8217;s post misses the point. We all know that fortunetelling is a scam. But nobody holds a loaded gun to their backs to force reluctant customers to walk in the door with money in hand.</p>
<p>Face the reality: the ban on fortunetelling is a racist measure targeted at a powerless minority, the Romani. </p>
<p>If the Jews and Muslims of Montgomery County slash healthy tissue from the sensitive genitals of baby boys without their consent, oh THAT is just their religious freedom, covenant with G-d, FAITH is so WONDERFUL, they HONOR GOD&#8217;S HAWLY WEHRD, ain&#8217;t it BEAUTIFUL, blah blah, you mustn&#8217;t criticize FAITH, it would be antiSemitic and RACIST, blah, blah blah.</p>
<p>The Romani and THEIR superstitions are singled out for attack because they are a miniscule and relatively defenseless group. </p>
<p>Roman Catholics can teach that the consecrated bread really, really became the Body of Christ and the wine became his blood &#8211; oh wow what a MIRACLE &#8211; and oh no, we must not interfere in THAT scam. But let the Romani of Montgomery County claim supernatural insights and it&#8217;s CRUCIFY THEM, CRUCIFY THEM, they are sinners, heretics, criminals. </p>
<p>Then L. Ron Hubbard can take all your money in return for convincing you that the evil XEMU created Earth ninety million years ago &#8211; and get away with it. Scientology takes your twenty thousand dollars, the fortune teller takes one hundred dollars &#8211; so let&#8217;s go after the Romani!?!? How much sense does that make?</p>
<p>The Holocaust was a dreadful historical event &#8211; yet mnay Jews survived. How may Romani walked out of Auschwitz alive? Lay off them. Go after the scammers whose superstitions actually damage people&#8217;s lives without their consent.</p>
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		<title>By: Victoria Miller</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5168</link>
		<dc:creator>Victoria Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5168</guid>
		<description>Many years ago one of my first jobs was with an answering service, and one of the clients was a fortuneteller.  The messages we had to take for this person were painful and an endurance test for human compassion.  Many clients were people seriously ill or with serious family problems, desperate for help and willing to believe anything!  The main reason I found another job was to avoid having to deal with the human tragedy pandered to and preyed upon by this fortuneteller.  

There is a huge market for vultures ready to prey on human suffering and weaknesses in our society.  I&#039;m not in favor of anything that supports preying on the most vulnerable in our society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many years ago one of my first jobs was with an answering service, and one of the clients was a fortuneteller.  The messages we had to take for this person were painful and an endurance test for human compassion.  Many clients were people seriously ill or with serious family problems, desperate for help and willing to believe anything!  The main reason I found another job was to avoid having to deal with the human tragedy pandered to and preyed upon by this fortuneteller.  </p>
<p>There is a huge market for vultures ready to prey on human suffering and weaknesses in our society.  I&#8217;m not in favor of anything that supports preying on the most vulnerable in our society.</p>
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		<title>By: Clayton</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5164</link>
		<dc:creator>Clayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5164</guid>
		<description>John K - that&#039;s a great point that I had not thought about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John K &#8211; that&#8217;s a great point that I had not thought about.</p>
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		<title>By: John K</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5148</link>
		<dc:creator>John K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5148</guid>
		<description>I should add that the point of the law, really, is probably to ban something that makes the local Christians angry...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add that the point of the law, really, is probably to ban something that makes the local Christians angry&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John K</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5147</link>
		<dc:creator>John K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5147</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see the sense in banning fortune-telling, really.  Personally, I think it&#039;s a ridiculous superstition but really the point is, what harm do we expect it to cause?  At worst, somebody might pay money to find out what they think is an honest-to-God omniscient vision of their future, and then act on it, and find out the vision was wrong.

So, say I pay him 25 bucks and lose 25 bucks on a bad bet (backed by his fortune-telling).  I go to court, say, &quot;This guy promised me such-and-such would happen, and it didn&#039;t, and as a result I lost $50.&quot;  One of three things will happen: 

1. The judge will find that the prediction didn&#039;t say what I thought, and I just assumed (wrongly) that it meant such-and-such.  My bad, I deserve to lose my money for being an idiot.

2. The judge will find that the fortune-teller doesn&#039;t actually advertise that his predictions are correct (say his ad says, &quot;These predictions are for entertainment only, etc.&quot;).  Again, my bad, I&#039;ll be smarter next time.

3. The judge finds that he promised his predictions were true, he predicted something, and it didn&#039;t happen.  In that case he will almost certainly lose the case based on existing fraud laws.  I get my money, I&#039;m happy.

All of the above outcomes are just and fair; none of them have anything to do with a law against fortune-telling; and best of all, none of them take any position on whether fortune-telling works or not.  So what&#039;s the point of the law, except to say &quot;fortune-tellers and their clients are superstitious idiots,&quot; which everybody already knows?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see the sense in banning fortune-telling, really.  Personally, I think it&#8217;s a ridiculous superstition but really the point is, what harm do we expect it to cause?  At worst, somebody might pay money to find out what they think is an honest-to-God omniscient vision of their future, and then act on it, and find out the vision was wrong.</p>
<p>So, say I pay him 25 bucks and lose 25 bucks on a bad bet (backed by his fortune-telling).  I go to court, say, &#8220;This guy promised me such-and-such would happen, and it didn&#8217;t, and as a result I lost $50.&#8221;  One of three things will happen: </p>
<p>1. The judge will find that the prediction didn&#8217;t say what I thought, and I just assumed (wrongly) that it meant such-and-such.  My bad, I deserve to lose my money for being an idiot.</p>
<p>2. The judge will find that the fortune-teller doesn&#8217;t actually advertise that his predictions are correct (say his ad says, &#8220;These predictions are for entertainment only, etc.&#8221;).  Again, my bad, I&#8217;ll be smarter next time.</p>
<p>3. The judge finds that he promised his predictions were true, he predicted something, and it didn&#8217;t happen.  In that case he will almost certainly lose the case based on existing fraud laws.  I get my money, I&#8217;m happy.</p>
<p>All of the above outcomes are just and fair; none of them have anything to do with a law against fortune-telling; and best of all, none of them take any position on whether fortune-telling works or not.  So what&#8217;s the point of the law, except to say &#8220;fortune-tellers and their clients are superstitious idiots,&#8221; which everybody already knows?</p>
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		<title>By: Abruzzo</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5139</link>
		<dc:creator>Abruzzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5139</guid>
		<description>Yes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes!</p>
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		<title>By: The prosperity gospel: where credulity meets guile - Rant &#38; Reason</title>
		<link>http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637&#038;cpage=1#comment-5138</link>
		<dc:creator>The prosperity gospel: where credulity meets guile - Rant &#38; Reason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thehumanist.com/?p=1637#comment-5138</guid>
		<description>[...] Links       &#171; Is fortunetelling a matter of the First Amendment? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Links       &laquo; Is fortunetelling a matter of the First Amendment? [...]</p>
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